Talent Isn't Enough: How to Get Seen as a Photographer or Retoucher

Jan · 0:22
Welcome to The Curated Lab podcast. I am Jan Wischermann. I'm a high end hair and beauty retouch artist, working in the creative industry for more than twenty three years and partnering with international hair and beauty brands, photographers and magazines.

Per · 0:37
Per Appelgren. I'm an internationally working fashion photographer shooting for clients such as Prada Beauty, Casablanca Paris and Vogue Germany among others. We founded The Curated Lab with one mission in our mind. to challenge the gatekeeping in our industry and to share real insights from our daily business.

Jan · 0:56
And that's what this podcast is all about, how the industry really works, how decisions are actually made, how people get booked, and we actu what actually matters once you move beyond just the craft.

Per · 1:09
This show is brand new, so one request before we start.

Jan · 1:09
If you are on YouTube, subscribe. If you are on Spotify or Apple Podcast, hit follow. Every click here helps other retouchers and photographers to find it.

Per · 1:09
Thank you and let us start.

Per · 1:23
And today in our first episode, we want to start giving you an insight into The Curated Lab and outline a problem that we see over and over again. The problem that we're noticing is a misconception of the belief that if your work just gets better, you will get noticed. But the reality is incredibly talented people stay invisible for years.

Jan · 1:46
it's not just your work, it's how you communicate your work. We had a clear vision of where we want to take this and we wanted to stop the gatekeeping in our industry, meaning that only a few selected people get real access to the industry to to know not just how the work is done, because of course that's essential. You need to understand how like big campaigns are made, how how big Let's say key visuals and and packaging is created and who the people are that that work in that industry, you need to know that, of course.

Jan · 2:25
But since there is so little insight into that, when you come from starting out in the industry as a photographer or as a retoucher, we want to make sure that also the less privileged people, the less experienced people get the right information to have a clear path in in their development, in their education, right?

Per · 2:50
Exactly. And I also think not everybody has the privilege or even the access to, as a photographer, do a couple of years assistantships with high-profile photographers or live in the big cities like Paris, London, New York, etc. And that's why we wanted to create that access and give insight into the things that happen onset behind the curtains and knowledge that you maybe didn't even know existed yet.

Per · 3:23
And that's how we want to make you or the people inside the Lab better by giving that access.

Jan · 3:30
Right. And we we would like to give you a little insight into the first five months, what happened, and because we were quite overwhelmed by the feedback Per if you would have asked me like five months ago, what do you think? How many people will notice what you do and how many people would be interested. I remember the first day when we launched the Lab sitting in your sitting in your office and the people coming in right in the first moment, it was like, my god, that's what did we do?

Jan · 4:07
we put our finger right where it hurts and that was so exciting to see and the first days were really exciting and then we we noticed because people were also coming into the community that there was a real demand, right? And how did it how did it go in in terms of development? Would you like to give a little little quick rundown on what happened so that people understand where we are now and why we are actually also doing this podcast and why we want to continue that path also with bringing people from our industry in to make this a really exciting format.

Per · 4:47
Absolutely. mean, the first five months, they felt like a whirlwind. We started the Lab. We had the first 150 people coming in in first three days and we picked up our live sessions inside the Lab. We do have live Q &As with both Jan and myself. We do have portfolio review sessions that we host every month. Live Q &As are every month and our community is very active and sharing their questions with us, we talk about together, they share their portfolio work with us, that we support them on.

Per · 5:23
We gained an incredible traction on Instagram, which, I don't know, it feels like we kind of found the magic key to the Insta algorithm and, you know, We gained 26,000 followers in the last eight weeks, which is insane to me. And it just goes to show there seems to be a real demand on high end knowledge and, you know, shared growth and shared building, especially nowadays where big parts of the internet seem to be, you know, in the hands of AI bots or slop.

Per · 5:58
And we provide like a real safe harbor for people, for creatives and inspire them to grow together.

Jan · 6:07
I think it's exactly that. We we we created a space where people can be vulnerable, where they can be open and where they actually commit to growth. And what what I like seeing the most inside the Lab is that we have people inside that are really helping each other, that are connecting, that are from all over the world. And that is what I really, really love. People to see the people that work together, that help each other out, that give each each other inspiration and that lift each other up.

Jan · 6:41
even when times like these where it's a lot of, let's say, uncertainty in terms of what happens next year. What will technology change? And I think we we talked about it so many times that it is so important to understand that it's not just technology and and work, you need to be able to be in control of the the outcome that you bring to your clients. So we we talk about the actual development of images, like how you set up your light.

Jan · 7:15
So one one key part of the Curated Lab is that there is stationary in in quotation marks, in air quotes, I mean like knowledge that we build over time. So there's lighting setups, there's capture one styles, there is color grading tuition, and also there's retouching tuition that goes really deep into professional workflow. And on the other hand, there is the community part and there's the the live interaction that you just mentioned, which I think is the second really big pillar that brings together what people actually want.

Jan · 7:50
Say so they want knowledge and they want exchange. So they They know what to talk about in client discussions. So we we in the first I think it was very eye-opening to me in the first live QA's and portfolio reviews that it was super interesting for the map lambber Lab members, not map lambers, to to really understand what it takes to communicate a portfolio. so we have been going through portfolios that some of our members were sharing and you were really able to identify what can be taken out what can be improved and I think that is a a very very valuable step in your creative career to understand how to present your best work and that it's not about like a lot of images it's about the strongest and how to communicate them and how to position yourself maybe Talking about the niche, talking about how pricing works, comparing that internationally is very interesting.

Jan · 8:55
And to but it all comes down to great communication, right? So if that's that's that leads to our main thesis that we have for this episode. It's not just getting better in in terms of how you work, it's getting better in terms of communication as well. And that is what we want to really dive deep into in our Lab sessions and I think that's where the magic lies.

Per · 9:23
Short break, we turned this episode into a free guide. The Portfolio and Visibility Check.

Jan · 9:23
Six points from today and 12 questions to go through before you send out your portfolio or you post new work.

Per · 9:23
Link is in the description. Back to the episode.

Per · 9:37
I think it's so valuable even for us, although we are already working for years, for decades in the industry, but it's so valuable to get the point of views from our members because also our members have different levels of experience. Some have been in the industry for years as well. Some are just starting out, some are somewhere in the mid-range. And I think what's so valuable is that Many times what we are noticing is that people just work for themselves. They sit in their room, they don't have a connection to other creatives, to other photographers. But now they have access to us, but also to our community.

Per · 10:20
And now they, well, I wouldn't say they can compare, but they get a different take or different view on how things can be done. Like for example, very simple example. I shared that in the beginning I was shooting five to six personal projects per week to get better. This is a number that helped me and it was so surprising for members to hear how much I shot.

Per · 10:50
So now they have a number to work with and think, okay, maybe I should just step up my game or level up. And I think those are parts that if you never heard that, you have no idea how others do it. And that's just the beauty of exchanging with each other and going on this journey together.

Jan · 11:09
Yeah, totally. And once we we started these conversations, we we saw some patterns because there's new people coming in all the time and the questions that are asked are are somewhat similar. And I think the beauty of of having these ever-growing plays inside the community enables others to also transport. what we've discussed, what they maybe learned to to new people. And that is like this this circle that I really, really appreciate that people start helping each other out, sharing perspectives, giving new insights.

Jan · 11:48
And because if you apply and if you talk about what you learned, that is very valuable valuable. And it helps you to also implement it better into yourself, right? And And yeah, so that is what what what we've been building. And maybe let's let's talk a bit about what the vision for the future is and why we are already also launching this podcast and what the intention behind that is. Would you like to to tell a bit about that, what we discuss what we planned, Per?

Per · 12:23
The podcast is basically to give our members and not yet members insights into our daily workflows, but also into our struggles that we also face, our challenges that we're facing on a daily basis because it's not always good weather, of course, and we want to share that. We want to be vulnerable as well. We want to... to share that you guys are not alone out there. But also to give you access to not just us as industry professionals, but we are hosting guests sessions.

Per · 12:58
We're bringing in super interesting creatives from magazines, from advertising companies, from big clients, from, you know. hair makeup artists, light technicians, want to bring them in, art directors, creative directors, you name it.

Jan · 13:13
other photographers and retouch artists, of course. And and of course we we do want to talk about the elephant in the room, which is obviously AI, and how how you can like not just use it in a way that enables you, but also to demystify people's perception, because AI is not the enemy. AI is if you use it right, it can solve many problems and accelerate your work. And we recently had like one of those theses out on on Instagram and it was really interesting to see how people react to it.

Jan · 13:50
I I really loved the discussion because it's it's such a hot topic. And of course I understand that people are frustrated and that are they are fed up with what is happening with AI. And that it becomes stronger and stronger. Yet I do think there has been so many disruptions in our industry. if we think back like 30 years and then we see what happened, how software evolved, how technology, camera evolved, like the switch from From analog to digital, for example, changed complete workflows and dark rooms into working in in computers.

Jan · 14:30
And now it's the next level, and yet the industry is still there and people are still there. And I think it's it's so important to be open to change and stay curious, and but at the same time, of course, also think about what kind of things you would want for yourself. And it's fair and fine to say that's not me, but I believe you know getting into the victim role is is something that is very convenient,

Per · 15:01
this just led to a thought that I think we both pursue, that we want to invite you and our listeners to maybe take on different perspectives on certain topics and in life and offer you different perspectives and how you can view things differently. There's not just always that one view or like a negative view, but there's always the counter side to it. And we want to invite you and share this take with you and how things can be seen differently.

Jan · 15:35
And that being said, I think there's so many things and topics that we already discovered and outlined for us to to bring to this podcast and also to the Lab, which I'm really excited about. And I I see that we have so much feedback from our network, from people that we work with. And also from of course from from people that are on the journey with the Curated Lab with us, that I believe there will be so many things that we can discuss, that we can shift perspectives.

Jan · 16:14
And if if one thing happens, and if that would be that people are getting more and more open to you know take a bird's eye view on the industry and on how they perceive it and get into exchange with one another and not discussing everything with ChatGPT and Claude and you know all hear the same stuff coming from those machines. it's so important to have that human connection because after all, really outstanding work I think is made by teams that work professionally together and be it from the concept, the the styling, the makeup, set design, photography, retouching, art direction, all this comes together.

Jan · 17:06
And if truly talented people work together, the magic happens. And you you should not forget there's always there's always clients and they might change their minds and they might iterate on their ideas as well and they might challenge your your Your concept, and that's not a bad thing. That's humans working together and discovering the best possible solution together. And for me personally, I think it's it's very important to make that clear to people because when I started out in retouching, I felt that I know a lot from theory, from because I was like a sponge.

Jan · 17:44
I was sucking everything in that I could find from knowledge that was shared. But yet I never really had exchange with the with the real industry. So I was, in theory, I was pretty good in retouching, but I never really put it to practice. And I never had that real feedback. And that's exactly where we want to be with the Lab. We want to be the place where people really get their hands dirty, where they learn, where they have exchange, and where they get real industry feedback that truly helps to grow and to connect with other people in the industry to. form networks, to form teams and to understand how real teamwork actually plays out.

Jan · 18:25
Before you go, one question for you. How many personal projects have you shot this year? Be honest.

Per · 18:25
Put the number in the comments and what's actually stopping you from doubling it.

Jan · 18:25
If this video helped you, then subscribe to the show on YouTube or rate the show on Spotify and Apple Podcasts because that's the way how other retouchers and photographers find it.

Per · 18:25
And the free guide is linked in the description below.

Per · 18:47
And we invite you to go on that journey with us starting here in the podcast and our next episodes with Jan and myself and with interesting industry guests that we bring in on a regular basis.

Jan · 19:01
Yes. All right. So next in the next episode we we want to talk about the gap between talent and getting booked and bringing clarity into into this discussion. And until then, wishing you a great rest of your day wherever you listened to this and happy for you to join us next time and until then Take care. Have a great day.

Per · 19:29
Take care guys, thanks for listening.